*yawn*

Do we have to get into this again?

Ok. First off, the plane did take off in the mythbusters episode.

The wheels simply provide contact with the ground so that the plane can roll.  All of the drive is provided by the air moved by the prop/turbine.  Just because the wheels are moving does not mean that the plane can not "pull "the air with the prop. 

If you put on roller skates and got on a treadmill, then pulled your self forward with your arms, you would in fact move forward.   

That make sense?  The plane would take off.

OK I read back through some posts and am still confused...If the plane starts at a dead stop on the treadmill and as it gets thrust the treadmill matches the speed to keep the plane stationary how can their be air movement across the wings for lift?

That is where you are wrong.  The treadmill can't exert force on the plane itself to keep it stationary.  It can only affect the wheels which won't slow the plane down.  Whether the plane has wheels, skis, or pontoons they don't effect the plane moving forward due to thrust. 

Yes I know this is beating a dead horse but hopefully this will put the debate to rest.

Bill has it right..nuff said...

Leave this thread rest in peace

Why does it matter where the wind was drawn in??  The plane moves forward which creates the airflow over the wing which allows it to take off. 

No air movement = no high/low air pressure under/over the wing = NO FLIGHT.  Basic physics....drop it already.  Even a forward prop plane will not fly int hat situation, the prop ONLY provides reverse thrust (forward motion) and not the airflow over the wings.  A plane on a STATIONARY treadmill will not fly.

That is the point of putting a plane on the treadmill, to keep it stationary - to keep it from having forward motion. I didn't assume anything, that's just physics in motion (or lack of motion ). I've seen/heard this 'teaser' before.

So what you are saying is essentially, the plane will have forward motion regardless of what the wheels are on?  The point of having the treadmill is to keep up speed on the wheels so there is no forward motion.  In actuality, there is NO motion relative to air/ground.  Only motion relative to the treadmill, which (is supposed to) keeps the plan at a standstill.  And again, we are talking about theory, which requires a perfect model of physiscs (no friction).  This also is taking into consideration that the treadmill is programmed to keep up to speed with the plane, countering any forward motion, which would lead to the eventual destruction of the treadmill, and that inturn would let the plane have forward motion.

Now, if the treadmill is NOT a powered or programmed treadmill, then yes - the prop/enginge will produce thrust as normal and the plane will eventually overcome the counterforce of the treadmill (if there is any) and will take off as normal.

Two different interpretations of this teaser.  That's one thing people usually don't mention when they ask you this - is the treadmill powered or not?

You know... I like physics as much as the next geek... but this is sounding a LOT like the "Schrödinger's Cat" discussions we had in school ><

(which is a mind-numbing topic, I might add)