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Author Topic: The Time To Upgrade  (Read 3314 times)

Offline The Nstuff

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The Time To Upgrade
« on: May 25, 2006, 07:41:44 PM »
Vista.  A new operating system that performs worse than XP (is to be expected as all new OSs from MS have been this way) on the current generation of hardware.

However, with Vista, comes new technology like hybrid hard drives and direct x 10.  Things that will happen around the same time as the Vista launch but not linked are new platforms from AMD and Intel.  Conroe will be coming out in a few months but I believe something even better will hit early next year.  AMD just upgraded the platform, but won't do much with the actual processors until early next year as well.

Are you trying to wait until Vista launches?  If so, what's your current rig and what's making you wait?  If not, same question, what's your current rig and why aren't you waiting.  

No Microsoft sucks flames or "why would you wait for Vista when Mac OS X is out now and is <insert multiplier> times better" or "Windows isn't opensource and i wouldn't touch anything that I can't see the source code."  Granted, this isn't slashdot, so i don't expect much of that type of talk, but just honest opinions on what people are waiting for and why.

I myself... i decided late last year that I thought I would try to wait until Vista launches as it supports hybrid hard drives and direct x 10.  I figured why upgrade and not get the latest tech as well?  But then Vista's launch keeps getting pushed back and I'm forced to re-evaluate how bad I want to upgrade.  I think the other part would be to force me to get more use out of my current system and have a goal that was a little ways out and would have to be reached before I start blowing money.

I'm running an Athlon XP 3000+, 1GB DDR400 dual channel, Radeon 9800pro.  Nothing too bad, but definitely a few generations old.
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Offline .:F3ar0n:.

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 10:49:50 PM »
I'll take a crack at this one. I'm currently running an amd64 4000+ with the usual 1gb of ram duel channel, a nvidia 6800 GT OC card and around 2 HD running around 300gb. Currently my entire rig is in agp...which is sad but when i rebuilt my comp about 8 months ago, i wanted my comp to be up and running asap. So i bought a agp mobo and throw in an old agp card so at least I had a comp for about a month before I upgraded to my 6800. I'm currently saving up to upgrade cause I wanna get to duel core processing and run sli. I know duel core is available now, but I've heard a lot from Maximum about support of duel core in vista which will be 10x better than xp (course xp never really was expecting to fully support duel to begin with so) Only thing else bothering me is memory. The amount of resources that vista is gonna take will force gamers to have at least 2gb of ram on hand. I'm havn't been wowed at all with the latest talk of ddr2. I truely don't understand the purpose of offering 400mhz+ ram when you havn't even come close to using it as it is. Its simular to the agp vs pci-x debate. we know pcx is gonna be the way of the future but benches proved that agp was getting simular reads in scores mainly cause ur  barely using the amount of bandwith agp is putting out...not to mention the dbl bandwith that pcx went overboard. Back to the topic at hand however, will not upgrade to vista until they get past the first couple builds. I wanna personally see the demand and performance difference before i throw down and give into the Bill Gates monopoly ownership of OS. Still it'll never replace my Suse 10 duel boot OS. Oh and 16 flipping gb for install is mad insane. What the hell do they have that requires vista to be 16gb. My thanks to Maximum Pc for keeping me in the loop on Vista and it's progress monthly

TekieB

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2006, 11:00:06 PM »
Attempting to make this unbiased as possible (though I am probly the biggest oss/apple fanboy on these boards)

I'm currently running a 12" powerbook with osx, it's my main rig, and the most useful IMO, we will leave it at that, as this is a windows themed thread, and my opions are made clear arround here.

My primary windows machine is a dual 2.2ghz amd mobile XP machine, 2gb ram, 2gb ram, lots of hdd (including a raid array) and a tnt2 video card (don't ask.) it's primary use is video editing.

Vista will happen when it happens, If you keep waiting you will never upgrade.  But I have a feeling that harware requirements will keep increasing as trusted computing/HD content becomes mainstream. I've read online talks of requireing a HDCP link from video card to monitor, and as of now there are very few/no machines that support that. The TPM module is a whole nother story, and scares me to think about it.
DirectX 10 looks promising, but again, market acceptance won't happen overnight. You seem like one of thsoe people on  the bleeding edge, and thats cool, but game developers will code for what most people have. And that will still be dx9 hardware for awhile. And at that point it gives you some buffer to buy new hardware once the specs finalize. (think about when PCIe came out and nvidia and ati were still releasing new agp cards)

If I was you i'd up your ram, maybe get a decent graphics card you can afford, and keep the cpu. SMP is still very over-rated for anything but pro content creation.

Offline zx2slow

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2006, 07:02:17 AM »
Socket AM2 was just released, if you have a decent socket 939 system an upgrade wont net you enough proformance to be of any value.  Im not too familar with intels offerings but if you have a 3ghz+ system with a 945 or better chipset upgradeing now would be a waste.  Conroe looks awsome but all the benchmarks were done under intel controlled situations, if the graphics cards war between nvidia and ati have shown us anything manufacture controlled benchmarks can be complete BS.

  I plan to let my newly purchased system get obsolete before I get any new hardware, my guess is I have a long while till that happens(2-4 years).  The new tech isnt going to happen overnight and some of it sounds good now but will suck when it hits the real world.  Being an early adopter will most likely be more costly than benificial at this point.  Wait a year or two for the technology to mature and the duds to fizzle to get the most bang for your buck.  Heck new AGP cards were released last month and socket A still refuses to die,
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Offline Fabio

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2006, 11:46:37 AM »
F3ar0n... pci-x(server) isnt the same as PCIe(consumer).... haha cant belive andy didnt flip out

i just upgraded.... i went from a 6800nu to 7600gt... i had to upgrade my mobo, case, and card(about 400$)... i kept my 3200+(cuz it still oc's like a mofo) and my ram... i feel that it was worth it because the preformance increase is off the charts... i also like that fact that i now have the choice to add another card if i want...

the comming months will be a great time to upgrade... new stuff comes out old stuff goes down in price...

im not worried about DX10 or vista at all... i will be able to support both... and if i want when new series of cards come out i can just get a new one....

PCIe will be staying for a while and right now its all about vid cards.... my suggestion is get nice sli board and what ever price range card you want...
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TekieB

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2006, 01:22:05 PM »
Quote from: "Fabio"
F3ar0n... pci-x(server) isnt the same as PCIe(consumer).... haha cant belive andy didnt flip out


It was late, I was out of it

Offline .:F3ar0n:.

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2006, 01:58:23 PM »
it twas what I meant...but simular to tekie....it was freakin 12:00 when i posted that so i was just sorta typin and didn't bother to go back and reread what I all said. Doing so now..I see I made quite a few mistakes in my explainantion....


Anyways, Tekie took the time and did a good explaination of what I was trying to say. Well said   :clap:

Offline The Nstuff

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2006, 11:34:37 AM »
F3ar0n, I just signed up for Maximum PC mag and have been waiting for the first issue to arrive but its looking like they will start me out in June rather than May... so I hadn't read any of their recent articles on Vista.  Cool to hear MS is adding some improved multiprocessor support.  From what I’ve read, they've completely rewritten the sound stack, network stack, UI, revamped the api (winfx), etc.  Vista doesn't look too terribly different at face value, but there is a lot going on that users can't see that is making a difference.

I'm actually not all that "cutting edge" as you can see from my PC's specs.  I really like being able to see a major difference in performance when I upgrade.  I wouldn't even have the Athlon xp 3000+ if I hadn't gotten into a really good deal on a friend's motherboard and ram that supported it.  Previously, i had been running the most excellent A7V333 and the not so excellent Athlon XP 1800+.

I guess I had this grandiose vision of doing this big bang upgrade replacing everything, starting off with 64bit-only Vista and new hardware that supported it, direct x 10 video card, hybrid hard drive, etc.

Its true that not a lot of apps are multi-threaded to take advantage of dual-cores yet.  But, being able to run more single-threaded apps simultaneously is definitely beneficial.  Not having to shut down a bunch of apps before playing oblivion would be nice for fear of them bogging down the cpu in the background.
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Offline zx2slow

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2006, 11:43:16 AM »
I get a lot of news/advice from overclockers.com.  Their front page has a lot of cynical articles on upgrading, and how the hardware industry hasn’t really come out with anything better lately, they just come out with different stuff to 'fool' everyone into upgrading needlessly.  SATA isnt really better unless you are running a raid setup, it's just diffrent.

  Their forums are pretty good for advice/honest reviews.
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Offline The Nstuff

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2006, 11:47:37 AM »
to be honest, i've been eyeing the macs.  I wouldn't mind trying one out and now with the ability to install any other OS if I ever got sick of OS X.  My brother is a mac-head and we have weekly discussions about PC vs Mac.  We have gotten pretty civil about it within the last few years.  Mostly probably because both Windows and Mac OS have gotten better and neither suck as much as they used to.  

Now that OS X is out, mac-heads feel safe to be able to actually open up to some gripes they had about OS 9 that they wouldn't dare reveal previously.  Same with Windows junkies who defended Windows 98 until Windows 2000 and XP came out and they started opening up to their gripes with 98 as well.  I'm somewhere in between.  I use Windows because that is what I use.  I've played with Linux, Mac OS 7.x through 10, Beos, etc.  Of all of them, Beos was the only OS that really blew me away from the start.  It had its issues but damn was it fast and easy to use.

My brother loves Mac OS so much that I can't help but want to try it out just to see if I get the same impressions that he does.  The problem is, to try out OS X (legally) requires a rather major hardware purchase as well.  To get anything worth its salt and have some life past a few months to a year, you have to spend well over a grand.  So, only recently have I felt safe to be able to try out a mac and if I just can't "get used to" OS X, I stil would have a nice laptop or desktop that I can play with.

Oh well...
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TekieB

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2006, 03:37:08 PM »
try osx!!!!!

Offline sully!

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2006, 05:59:47 PM »
Quote
Beos was the only OS that really blew me away from the start. It had its issues but damn was it fast and easy to use.


I agree 100% with you. BeOS just blew my mind in it's abilities and performance running on the same crappy hardware that I had Windows 98 on at the time. I'd really like to revisit it at some point. It's too bad it's all but dead currently.

But I'm in the same boat as you. I'd like to upgrade, but I'm kind of tired of doing it piecemeal with my current setup. Just like OS X and Windows XP, it's time to cut the cord to the past and just start from from scratch. I will be waiting until next year to do so though. My current setup (Athlon XP 3200 [socket 754], 1GB Corsair Pro PC4000, 6800GT OC, way too many hard drives, etc.) is great for 90% of the stuff out there, but I am the bleeding edge type of person and multi-tasking just kills me right now.

When I take the leap, I will have a quad-core CPU, >= 4GB RAM, RAID 5, at least a 2-way SLI (but Quad SLI capable), and depending on the way the market pans out, probably a PhysX PPU. The only thing I'll carry over from the current system would be my X-Fi and maybe the flash card reader. Everything else will stay in the current case and become a media server. The 6800GT will either be sold or put to use elsewhere since a server doesn't need it.

One more thing, I keep seeing you refer to hybrid hard drives. I haven't seen anything about them in Vista. What exactly do you mean?
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Offline The Nstuff

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2006, 07:38:41 PM »
Sully,

About the hybrid hard drive: cnet article on it

YellowTab has been developing Zeta (beos but without the name).  I haven't played with it nor have I heard anything about it other than that they are working on it.  I think there are some other opensource projects underway as well.  My guess is, just like the beloved Amiga, Beos is dead and those still working on it don't realize the corpse is cold already.  Arg, now i brought up Amiga <reminisces>

Your system is fairly similar spec-wise to mine, though you have some upgradeability left as AMD released quit a few cpus for the socket 754.  I'm pretty much maxed out with my socket A.  Your ideas for upgrading to a totally new system, raid 5, 2-4gb memory, not sure about quad core, but definitely dual core, and not sure about SLI either, but i might get an SLI board just so i can slap another card in there when i see a really good deal a year down the road.  I really don't have anything I'd like to move over from my current system.  I'm still using the original audigy (fake 24bit and all).

Currently, the nforce 4 chipsets still have all kinds of weird issues i see in the forums.  Via hasn't put any serious effort in the AMD chipset area for a long while and i've heard problems with the sound blaster xfi as well.  ATI's brand new AM2 chipset looks really appealing.  Hopefully, in about 8 month's time, new chipsets and new drivers will have most of these issues worked out.
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Offline .:F3ar0n:.

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2006, 10:06:34 PM »
I believe I read that Spring of 07 is when AMD is planning on releasing quad core processors...Should be interesting on how they plan on approching it. Intel of course has rumors as well about quad core processors..but they'll a little behind the curve considering AMD jumped way ahead of the whole Duel processors before Intel started introducing there versions.

On the topic of reviews...overclockers is an amazing site on the latest tech talk. Of course you can always rely on http://www.tomshardware.com and sharky's as well for the latest info. I'm interested to seeing how AMD is responding to cornroe cause obviously AM2 isn't gonna cut it. Now even though all the benches released have all only been tested by Intel themself and no other's so who knows if they hold up. Still, Amd is gonna have to pull something big to keep up with the scores that Intel is flashing aroundf

TekieB

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The Time To Upgrade
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2006, 10:25:03 PM »
i've found thg is VERY biased