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LAN Party Forums => Hardware Discussion => Started by: _!Rathe!_ on March 27, 2006, 09:39:32 AM
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Ok. I was given the task of creating a backup system for one of the machines at my plant. The machine consists of 3 pc's with minor variations in hardware (mostly add-in cards). What we want to do is have 1 pc as a spare to drop in if another goes bad. we have removable hard drive bays in all computers. The add-in cards will transfer over when the computer is switched. Here is my question. What would the best back up system be for the computers?? Raid isn't an option because we don't want to spend the money for the cards for the computers.
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If you can afford the extra hard drives, I would use ghost to keep spares. Am I to assume that this is a manufacturing machine? What type of hard drives are in these machines and what OS do they run? I am just trying to get a feel of the filesystem that is on them for a software solution. But if you all can't spend $13 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815161013) a machine plus hard drive, I think you have some other problems.
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One is running Italian DOS, one is running Windows NT, and I am not sure of the other. And P.S. I was unaware that RAID cards were that cheap. That may be an avenue that I look into then.
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Yeah, they aren't too expensive... And I just wanted to mention I didn't mean to sound like an ass there. Cuzznkev pointed that out to me just a moment ago.. It seems I am not doing too well with the English language today.
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/me saves the day.
I am off to another forum somewhere, to bring peace, justice, and harmony to a monday morning messageboard crowd.
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And I just wanted to mention I didn't mean to sound like an ass there.
That's ok...I am used to dealing with asses in forums...
LMAO
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Italian DOS? Interesting....
Some more questions for consideration...
Does the data on these machines change often or are they basically just used to access other systems? In other words, can you get away with a once and done type of backup or will you need to backup on a regular basis?
Secondly, what sort of downtime is allowed for these machines? Are they critical to the operation of the business or is it ok if they are offline for an hour or two (to determine what type of backup to use).
Lastly, a RAID isn't going to save you from bad RAM, CPU, PSU, motherboard, etc. So don't rely on it exclusively, you will still need some type of backup onto alternative media. And how can a system that runs DOS be a replacement for one that runs NT, or the other thing you don't remember? Do all three of these machines perform similar functions or are they unique in their roles? If they are unique, how can you expect to just "drop in a spare"?
I know it's a touchy subject to put down specifics about a business and/or their processes, but in this situation it might really help, even if only done in PM's.
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ok...let's take this one thing at a time.
On two of the machines the data on the drive is pretty much static. They receive most of their information from PLC's that they are connected to.
As for downtime this is a critical machine in our plant and downtime needs to be kept to a minimum. This machine runs sometimes 24/7.
but will a bad CPU, Ram, PSU, Mobo destroy the data on the raid array?? I have a spare system to put in when those fail. The hard drives (with OS's) will carry over to the spare system.
Each computer is unique. The Italian Dos computer controls 2 furnaces. The Windows NT system runs a database server that has all the information on upcoming orders, process parameters, and history. The other PC which I am not sure of the OS runs the operator control screen.
As far as touchy information if you can figure out what machine this is I will give you a cookie.
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Haha....
The other failed parts won't cause the data on the raid to go away, but I would be worried about plopping an OS drive into a different system. Unless the systems are *exactly* alike.
At work I have a Ghost image of a Dell Latitude D600. We just ordered some new machines a few weeks ago, but since we got the D600's, Dell has updated them a little bit and are now D610's. They are nearly identical in all ways, but if I try to use the D600 image on a 610, I end up with a brick, so now I have a separate image for both of them.
The good part about the data being static is that you can probably get away with less frequent backups on the DOS and "other" machines, only backing up if something changes in the configuration.
For the NT machine with the database, you will need more frequent (ie, daily) backups since the data changes constantly. Each person has their own backup strategies, but most will follow the guideline of full backups once a week (and then taken off-site) and incremental backups (only backing up what has changed since the last full backup) daily. This lets you restore to the snapshot from the previous day for things like accidental deletion or system corruption and in the case of a disaster (fire, flood, etc.), you lose at most 1 week, assuming your daily backups were also destroyed in the disaster.
You can get a good basic comparison of the pros and cons of different backup strategies at http://www.geekgirls.com/windows_backup_strategies_table.htm
Lastly, don't forget the most important part of any backup strategy....the restore process. Backups do you no good if you can't restore from them and quickly. They also do you no good if they are destroyed, so it is important to store your full backups off-site and maintain a rotating schedule of media. For example, have a 5-part rotation (A-E), where while A[full] is your active backup for that week, B[full]-E[full] are offsite. After your next full backup, take A[full] offsite and use B[full] for the next week. Eventually you will get back to A[full] again. By that time you will have 4 other full backups and the data on A[full] will be fairly outdated. Along with each [full] will be a related x[INC] for your incremental backups.
Take a look at more thorough strategies at http://www.novastor.com/tech_supt/strategy.html
There's a lot to consider in backups. First develop a strategy, then we can talk hardware/software to implement the strategy.
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Is this PC on a network? If so, you can install Ghost on the PC, and when it is running, it can auto update the ghost image on a shared drive on a network. Then, in the event of a system crash, you could blow the image from the network down to a machine that is exactly the same hardware... and voila! Its like nothing ever happened!
Just throwin that out there.
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ummm DOS.... HELLO! You windows admins! Even if these are WinNT Machines they are usually very piky about the hardware anyway because of the addin cards. Manufacturing machines are picky... Printing Presses are this way. Most of the ATA raid 1 card will let you break the array just by taking the drive oof the controller... In the DOS enviroment it can't really tell the difference in controller cards.
BTW You are making baked goods, pottery or bricks.
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You know.. I was sitting here thinking... It's probably not any of them... Then I thought... TITLES!!! That's gotta be it!
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BTW You are making baked goods, pottery or bricks.
Nope, nope and nope.
A hint for you. The furnaces only prepare the material for the machine. They are not and main part of the machine.
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Glass!!?
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Bongs!!
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no it isn't glass. although 3 of the 5 letters are correct...and there are only 5 letters.
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SALT!
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that's only 4 letters.
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No... he distinctly used a "!" lol
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this is going to bug me....
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huh... what...
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I duno this thread was resurected after a month. :)